Log in. Assassin's Creed forums are now archived and accessible in read-only mode, please go to the new platform to discuss the game. Thread: Why so many dark skinned people in Greece? Why so many dark skinned people in Greece? I am pretty sure that Greeks in ancient times where pretty pale and white skinned, so why so many dark skinned people That you can't find in Greece even nowtoday apart from immigrates from Middle east or N Africa?
This thing was ok in Egypt and indeed portrayed the difference between Greeks and Locals , althouhgh it was exagerated as Egyptians aren't dark skinned unless you go very very south , but in Greece??? Reply Share this post. I am pretty sure that Greeks in ancient times where pretty pale and white skinned. And you probably got that idea from movies. Originally Posted by cawatrooper9 Go to original post. Just another attempt by white scholars doing what they have always done is to assign all the great civilizations to a European invention in an attempt to maintain the myth of white supremacy.
Cleopatra was a black woman! Swallow that pill. In a land dominated by the original dark skin man, you expect us to believe that every great Egyptian or biblical person that walk that land was white?
You can barely stay in the Sun for an hour without burning up. Cleopatra was a Greek Macedonian pure and simple. Egyptian royalty only intermarried amongst themselves, so it is very unlikely for anyone outside the Royal family to have added to the Royal gene pool.
Secondly Roman writers give no indication that Cleopatra was African. She was Albanian. It was only Albania. They took so much credit from Albanian people. Alexander the great supposedly from Macedonia was albanian. I have visited a church in Macedonia and I got informed from different sources that the church had an eagle Albanian symbol painted on the walls ,but after they took Albanians territory they Burnet it ,and repainted it to make it look Macedonian.
This was just an excample of how mistreated Albanian history is. Ah, the neverending discussion about race.. Makes you think if we humans can ever overcome our desire hate eachother.
I will for sure get hate for this, people are going to assume my pigment and try to bash me for it. But whatever, live in your world of hate. Just give your children room for their own thoughts. Original Ancient Egyptians were most likely originally African as in black African most written sources from those times with depictions back that fact up. Cleopatra was most likely of mixed ethnicity and according to America one drop rule can be therefore considered black in their eyes.
Keep that in mind. An absolute woman, an amazingly capable queen, seen as equal to men even back then! Whom ever wrote this article needs a refund of their historical education. Cleopatra was not Greek or close to it. The timeline between the first Ptolemy and the last there was a drastic change in the empire. All the Kings who did rule areas married women whom were native to the area. Alexander himself had wives whom were of brown and black descent.
Quit trying to Europeanize History, give credit where its due. Look at a map! Meaning she woukd have some nice toasty skin! Representation and Whitewashing. White people and those born of Europe are to most represented in media. White people can turn anywhere and find a role model. Now as for Whitewashing, Jesus is another example. He was from Isreal. The same has happened to other figures of non-europeans and non-european descended.
You cannot rewrite history or you may as well be like old racist Hollywood. They were not white like a Celt, and they were not black like a Nubian. The Queen apparently loved her country and her people, so they loved her. It would explain her popularity, but that can also be explained by the simple fact that she was an amazing politician — She knew how to charm people.
Could she have been darker than a Greek? Maybe, maybe not. They called her the Egyptian, not the Nubian. Funerary masks of that time depict Greeks, not Nubian Egyptians. They had dark, curly hair and olive skin. Most likely, and this is based on cultural, historical evidence, written narrative, and the coins and more realistic statue of her head, she would have looked like the actress Marina Sirtis StarTrek circa with a really deep tan.
I saw something about Angelina Jolie being cast as Cleopatra, but it would only work if she had a bunch of makeup, a wig, a prosthetic nose and gained some weight if we want to be historically accurate. Harriet Tubman. You want a strong black female role model? How about a woman who risked her life to enter the deep South over and over to save hundreds of lives? And she did it with a head injury that gave her narcolepsy- she fell asleep on a bench once and risked capture, torture, etc.
She was a superhero, and definitely black. And, Cleopatra? She was a politician. What a hero. Prejudice is universal, and knows no color, creed, religion or body type. First, many on this thread denied the possibility that Cleopatra was black.
Of course, these are the same people who wanted to deny Barack Obama was black. This professor is a clown. I live in Columbus and pray I run into this joker one day to confront him on this idiocy. What is this trash. What if she was an egyptian.. Have you guys even try dna testing? Does she even wrote it on her face with alphabet?
As a historian, you should not be hedging to appease the gods of political correctness. Civilization is a manifestation of genetics. History shows us that race matters on a macro level. It is directly correlated to the continued transmission of the civilization by the founding race. These regions were either invaded or otherwise occupied through the use of laborers, immigration, or in rare cases, by conquest by nonwhite nations of varying races.
Kemp, Arthur. Now for all you one drop rule people, you tell me what is her ethnicity? Are you freaking kidding, racist or just plain thick? Her family lived on Egypt for over years…yes Egypt in African where the first people lived.
That makes no sense. Example both Halle Berry and Barrack Obama are half white yet still very much people of color and she had significantly less in her blood. Why do black people want to claim the Ptolemaic dynasty was black? They invaded Egypt from Greece. Ancient Greeks had olive skin just like today.
Well, well.. What a fierce discussion. I as an cultural antrophologist of North-African descent have a few things to mention here. You all talk about white or black, Africa, Europe, Greece, etc. Egypt is North-African, Egypt is Amazigh and still today. Some North-African people are also of mixed-race, but you can find all the colors you want in our people; black, brown, light-brown, white, etc. For me that means that Cleopatra is also of Berber descent, which can explain her appereance.
She was petite slim, dark hair and olive skin. Dark almond shaped eyes and fine face structure, nothing Greek or Roman about that. It is very disturbing that different sources like Wikipedia and other acadamic researchers who are mostly of white descent are changing the North-African history.
This post is a waste of time. They wrote it down. Thousands of years of dynastic rule ended with her. Augustus wiped her off the map. Not to mention the inbreeding. That alone, sheesh. Egypt is in Northern Africa. Another Racist author.
The original Egyptians were pushed into the Sudan. They were Black Africans and Cleopatra was mixed with Egyptian. She was Black and it matters very much. Your article is full of bias and ridiculousness. It is on the continent of Africa! Nevermind that Cleopatra was Egyptian by birth alone and was of Greek ancestry, with an outside chance of possible admixture with Egyptian blood. Evidently, the colonialist […]. The bigger question is where is the rest of History?
She can be POC all she wants she still had slaves. The Romans enlaved Slavic people. If slavery sucks so much she sucks. Again lost history. As a part Slavic person. Duane Roller is a perfect example of how having degrees and titles does not make you smart or intelligent. Are you suggesting there were no black actresses who could have played Cleopatra just as good as a white person or even better?
Given that Cleopatra was black royalty. Much of the spiritual community gets to pick and […]. Often there are stories of Transgender actors being turned down to play Transgender characters, which is highly unfair, as they are unable to thus share their own stories, nevermind the fact they ARE transgender. However, they are also not allowed to act as cisgender characters of their own gender, because they are, again, Trans. Additionally, there are so few opportunities for African American actors, and actors of other minority groups, so yes, it is definitely a problem of race.
Your idea about race not mattering is true. Race should not matter, but the fact is that it does, and it has astronomical impacts on the way or society is run. Allowing more ethnic groups other than caucasian into our movies, books and social media ALLOWS it to become more normal!!
It would allow African Americans to share their culture and ideas, which would lead to better understandings between cultures — that is what media is for, to share ideas. One day, it will perhaps not even be an issue, because having these ethnic and marginalised groups in our daily lives and viewing will be normal and completely expected.
My issue with Duane Roller is that he is a liar and disgrace to his profession. All ancient Egyptians were black africans and to ask- but does it matter? Why fabricate a white history that never happened in Africa?
This man is a terrible so-called historian who believes that he and his cohorts can reinvent the true history. The current racial makeup of Egypt is a result of mixing between native Egyptians and European colonizers, so if you are saying Egyptian to mean native Egyptians prior to this racial mixing, then you are talking about black Africans. This author is so unabashedly biased that it is laughable to think that anyone would take them seriously.
How about this? Your opinion is ignorant, uninformed, and of no value whatsoever, so keep it to yourself. Next thing you know people gonna change Martin Luther King white.
To act like they cared for us. Playing asians, natives, blacks, etc. They all full sht. Wow the amount of non Hellenes Macedonians claiming the ancestry is insane.
First you have Bulgarians speaking a Bulgaro-Serbian language, claiming to be Macedonians. Macedonians were Hellenes and the spoke Hellenic, wrote Hellenic, had Hellenic names, spread the Hellenic culture etc.
Second and most important, Egypt in ancient times were never regarded in Africa. It was regarded to be in the Middle East. Sub Saharan Africans have little to nothing to do with Northern Africa. Northen Africa has been a place that was inhabited by Mediterraneans for thousands of years before the Arabs arrived.
Ancient Egyptians have absolutely nothing to do with sub Saharan Africans and thus nothing to do with the descendants of the laves that were sold to USA aka African Americans.
Nubians are Nubians, unless you are a Nubian you cannot claim you are part of them just because they have black skin. For the same reason both Swedes and Greeks are European but so totally different, the same thing happens with the sub saharan African people. Cleopatra was Greek Macedonian, there is no way an illegitimate child would ever become a powerful Queen. There is absolutely no way her mother was Nubian black or a woman without a status aka mixed. Enlighten yourselves, and educate yourselves.
Whoever knows history and has studied, knows these things. Do you have evidence that Egyptians in Africa btw were not black. Roller, please stop spreading these falsehoods. Matter of fact answer this question- why would Cleopatra and family come all of the way to Egypt to worship Black Gods and Goddesses if she and they were what you wished them to be?
Second, why not any other culture India, Persia, etc acquired by Alexander during that time, why Egypt? Even Alexander himself spent his last years in Egypt. Wonder why? What kind of a Historical swindler are you?
It was clearly a sly tactic that only makes you sound like more of a scammer. Last, what race was Marilyn Monroe? You are ignorant, and bias. You see the problem is the further you go back in history the blacker it is, and the white man hates that. He can hide the truth, but he cannot erase it.
So before you go and try to confirm something in history know your truth. Black African is African period. If not black African they are colonizers period. There is no distinction between black African and African.
This is a subtle means to separate the great kingdom of Egypt from the great continent of Africa. Please stop all the lies. Of course color matters. Color matters in every aspect of life. It matters on every single news report of a violent crime that reports 2 black males are wanted. Actually no one is truly white or black. Color means life and death while driving while black on the wrong road when stoped by a angry man in blue.
Egypt is on the African Continent. Egypt was and is a African country. Africans range from very light brown to very dark brown. Facts are facts. To the victor go the spoils. History is written by the winners. Africa had civilization long before the rest of the world. Africa is the origin of species homo sapiens. The Greeks were comprised of a hundred different genetic origins resulting from that territory being overrun scores of times. An artist has license to make anyone look any way they choose.
The human race is one race — Circumstance has graced it with variety. Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. What a tone deaf blog entry that has not aged well. Does it matter that Barack Obama is Black? That Mansa Musa was African? That Andromeda has been whitewashed throughout the history of art? Of course it does. Think beyond the tip of your own nose. Ramses II etc, however, that family- they had very different genetics but they were Egyptian. But the genetics of what it meant to be Egyptian changed many times over the centuries.
She lived and died long before Michelangelo, of course, but the portrait really, really looks like it was modeled on a young woman of African descent. People had affairs. Records got lost. Things were erased — probably from all our own family trees, too. Cleopatra: A Biography. Buy Now. By Duane W. Roller December 6 th Racial profiling and manipulation have been around for a very long time. Subscribe to the OUPblog via email: Our Privacy Policy sets out how Oxford University Press handles your personal information, and your rights to object to your personal information being used for marketing to you or being processed as part of our business activities.
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There have been a number of stories in recent months about the intersection of race and classics, and most of them address issues in the discipline that are inextricably linked to this narrative about the ancient world. The question of whether race existed in some form in the premodern past, especially in the ancient world, is extremely murky. We know that the Greeks and Romans would never have thought of themselves as part of an identity group with others solely because they shared a skin color, nor should we assume that all Greeks and Romans even had the same skin tone.
Or does trying to apply the term too broadly water down its impact and merely serve to reinforce inaccurate ideas about the similarity between our culture and those of people who lived millennia ago? There is no answer, in part because the type of evidence we would want to understand the structural impacts of race in the ancient world is largely gone.
All we have are elite male Greeks and Romans writing about other peoples. This is why I wanted to use a teaching gallery in the course. Art often reveals the implicit assumptions of a culture that are not explicit in the literary evidence. In the gallery, I have included a sample of some of the ancient materials from the Kemper collection to show the range of colors used to depict skin, from a deep black glaze to pale white marble.
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